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Bid Increment - allow snipe to be automatically increased

 
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fire_bad
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Bid Increment - allow snipe to be automatically increased Reply with quote

First off - I love Gixen. It is by far the best (and most affordable) sniping program I have ever used. So thanks.

As for a feature I would like to see:

I have lost a few auctions because my snipe was just below the bid increment. As an example: I had a snipe set to $40.44 on an auction that was only at $11 when I entered the snipe amount. The auction ended at $40.00 and my snipe was not executed because it was smaller than the bid increment.

I would like an option added that would increase the bid upwards to the next bid increment when Gixen is placing the snipe bid.

Maybe this could be a Mirror only feature.

I know I may still not win the auction but at least I would have a chance to win at $40.50 instead of not even having a chance because my $40.44 bid was not placed placed.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Bid Increment - allow snipe to be automatically increased

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marc_5891
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:47 am    Post subject: I totally subscribe this feature suggestion. Reply with quote

I also love Gixen and I also would love to see this feature implemented.
I've suffer the same problems many times already.
It is about time for Gixen to grow.
Come on devs! Give us an even better tool!

Thanks,
m.
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Rickajho
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see this happening as there is a false assumption in this scenario: That you know there is no bid higher than the 'automatic' next bid increment you want gixen to do. And you don't know that. In your scenario if the person you lost to had a proxy bid of $45.00 outstanding how would an automatic bump to $40.50 help?

Besides, liability issues aside, that's asking Mario to take on the responsibility of setting bid amounts and that's not his job - it's ours.
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Rickajho,

The most likely scenario from implementing the proposed feature is that there be a higher selling price, not that there would be a different winner.

So if your aim is to raise prices on Ebay that is fine, otherwise the result on most occasions will not be an advantage to the Gixen user that utilises the feature.
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marc_5891
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I of course disagree:

1) Not Mario's job: feature would be an option. Enabling it would be our job.

2) When you set your snipe, you state the maximum amount of money you are ready to pay for it, BUT that amount is always something of an approximation: an amount you can sort-of justify to yourself without being haunted later by regret and remorse. So, it happens that you would still pay a very small extra to get the item as long as it is small enough compared with your initial amount that you almost can't tell and don't care. But a priori, you don't know what's going to happen, so you state your amount, then go to bed to see next morning that you actually lost your item to somebody else by less than the bid increment. Not funny.

And that's what this request is all about.

Finally: no assumption is made as to that automatic increment would or not save the day. It could be useless or key, but that's enough to justify its implementation. Would it contribute to prices raising? Yes, just because people would be ready to pay a very small bit more under certain circunstances, and this feature would allow it.

Mario, come on down and talk to us... Smile
m.
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree that your snipe amount is, and should be, 'something of an approximation', it should be the maximum amount that you are prepared to pay before you believe the higher bidder paid too much for it.
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marc_5891
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't agree, of course, but anyways: Gixen should support different mindsets.
m.
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Rickajho
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry but eBay doesn't work that way. Your bid amount has to be an exact number. Not an exact-ish number. If you can't commit to a value you are willing to bid on an auction item then you may need to rethink what you are doing on eBay. That sort of "sliding scale bidding" thought process is opening up Mario to needless risk that I'm pretty sure he would be unwilling to take on.

Besides, there is also the technically impractical matter of asking gixen to increase your bid amount on the fly in a matter of split seconds at the end of an auction - which, technically, won't work. Read the FAQ warnings regarding modifying or canceling bids in the last two minutes before the end of an auction. Your requested "sliding scale" bid amount won't work for the same reasons.
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Cupid



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, to be fair... For this specific highly focused request, I do believe it could be implemented in a reasonably risk free manner...

I just don't believe it is desirable, for the reasons I have already given.

I also believe that, if you are a sniper, the most efficient use of your time is in doing more research on the potential value of the items you are interested in as opposed to allowing yourself to be unsure as to how much you think you might be happy spending on it. In my opinion that mindset leads to far more disappointment and wasted time, in the long run.
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smitty
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:33 pm    Post subject: You should not lose on an increment Reply with quote

No matter how much research you do on a product, you can no longer research your competition. (Long ago, that was possible and one could research the other KNOWN bidders to see WHEN they bid and HOW they bid. I won several of my first auctions that way. But that is not possible any longer.)

A completely different error message occurs, if you aren't higher than a bid increment, so it would be possible for the server to calculate a new number, if the bid was rejected.

What some of the people say above is that you need to have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the product price, therefore the only way to "fix this ourselves" would be to set a price and then add the appropriate increment for that price amount which would be an effective raise to the next increment, no matter what the other bidder is at.

So if "keeping prices down" was your goal, this would definitely raise prices but that is the ONLY method that "we" can implement.

That is why a "late raise" by Gixen would help. And no, it is not guaranteed, but it would incrementally help.

As far as the "liability", you would simply be bidding, for example, at $10.50 - $11.00, which can be easily calculated. If $10.50 fails, Gixen bids $11, milliseconds later. (You would know the cap when the bid was entered. This should be a premium feature as well or even a "super premium" feature (at an increased price).)

Granted, this is an addition to the software, but it would incrementally increase the number of wins by Gixen without one having to set a bid amount and then ADD a increment to insure their original winning bid isn't lost, due to a low "bid increment".

And it could be for only people willing to pay extra for it.
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Cupid



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now here Rickajho does have a point.

If the implementation was just to increase the bid by part of an increment when the price was already within 1 bid increment with about 2 minutes to go... that would be reasonably easy and risk free to do. That was all I thought you were asking for.

If now we extend that to increases in price within the last couple of minutes, and actually trying to place multiple consecutive and reactive bids at different amounts then time constraints do apply as Rickajho pointed out in the second part of their post above... and that may rule such an extension out entirely.
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NorthSky
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:44 pm    Post subject: Bid Increment - allow snipe to be automatically increased Reply with quote

No need to develop , solution is already there .
Just bid mirror second later with 99c
( or other minimal bid increment as needed )

Thanks
NorthSky
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dlynwild1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: bid increments ..bidder's intent ..and orders of magnitude Reply with quote

We do our research, decide how much we want to pay for an item, then set the snipe ...and sometimes lose by less than a bid increment.
(caveat: math and scenarios aren't my strong suit so please correct me if I didn't get this right)

In looking at my history re: losses, I see: "outsniped", "outbid", and "bid under asking price", and some, have a link to eBay's bid increment table. Those were the snipes not placed because my amount was less than a bid increment above a competitor's bid or snipe (if I understand correctly).

If Gixen could bump my snipe up by the applicable bid increment for the price range at closing, I'd win the auctions where my top competitor's max bid was within (slightly less than) the next increment above the closing price.

For example:
I set a snipe for $27.79 on an item that starts at $1.50

During the auction, bids come in for various odd amounts, and its at $25.85 when the final bids come in at closing.
(bid increment = $1.00 for price range at closing)

If my top competitor's proxy is $26.95, my snipe is rejected (because $27.79 is not $1.00 above $26.95).
If Gixen could bump my snipe to $27.95, I'd win. (right?)

Or, if my competitor's max was $28.59, and Gixen bumped my snipe to $27.85, I'd win. (right?)

If my competitor's max was $28.90, I'd lose (because its more than 1 increment beyond my original $27.79 snipe, ie., I was simply "outbid" or "outsniped").


I think we're talking about orders of magnitude and whether/how much we might want to flex the amount we'd pay to win an auction *because* of bid increments. Yes, its a slippery slope and you gotta draw the line somewhere. That said, if I decide I'm willing to pay $27.79 for an item, would I spend an extra dollar to win that auction? You bet.

Maybe its just psychological, but if you buy alot of low-priced items, say, like collectible tokens, or costume jewelry, and the bidding is close, those 25c and 50c increments are real killers, because, as Smitty said, you can no longer research your competitors' bidding habits, and its impossible to predict the odd amounts (eg., $1.39, $12.87) that will show up in bidding.

You also can't predict when the increment may change for items when their prices hover near the break between ranges, eg., 5 bucks, 25 bucks, etc.

$0.01 - 0.99 -- 5c
$1.00 - 4.99 -- 25c
$5.00 - 24.99 -- 50c
$25.00 - 99.99 -- $1.00

I'm a round numbers gal. I really like the idea of having a checkbox to bump my snipe by the applicable bid increment for the price range at closing. I'd gladly add a dollar to my mirror subscription to pay for that feature. I bet Gixen would be the only one to offer this.
Deb
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Cupid



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb,

I think you've misunderstood how Ebay bidding works, in some important respects.

If the price is $25.85 then the bids Ebay will accept are based on that, not on what the underlying proxy bid actually is, as you assumed in your scenarios.

When the price is $25.85 anything above $26.84 is a bid that will be accepted by Ebay. It may not win depending what the current high bidders actual proxy bid was, but it will raise the price of the auction.

It is only when the auction price is within one bid increment of your bid that it is rejected by Ebay.

Unfortunately that misunderstanding, in my opinion, undermines the argument that you are trying to make.
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dlynwild1
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank your for your response and explanation Mark! I just popped in, its late, and I'll have to get my head around this one hopefully tomorrow! I likely didn't explain my thoughts very well ...but a light bulb came on in reading your post, its just a bit dim at the moment Idea ..more later...
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dlynwild1
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I just lost an auction due to what I *think* I was trying to describe..

Cupid wrote:

If the price is $25.85 then the bids Ebay will accept are based on that, not on what the underlying proxy bid actually is, as you assumed in your scenarios.

When the price is $25.85 anything above $26.84 is a bid that will be accepted by Ebay. It may not win depending what the current high bidders actual proxy bid was, but it will raise the price of the auction.

It is only when the auction price is within one bid increment of your bid that it is rejected by Ebay.


I think I was trying to describe a scenario where, if I set a snipe for $27.79 and my top competitor's *bid* is at $25.85 in the closing moments BUT his *proxy* (which would be triggered by my snipe) is $26.95, my snipe (would be) rejected (because $27.79 is not $1.00 above $26.95).

If Gixen could bump my snipe by one bid increment, I would win the auction. Of course, if his proxy were higher, or I was outsniped by a bid beyond the increment, then I'd lose. Perhaps it is just psychological, but if its a close call, I'd much rather win the item.

Here's the auction I just lost (my snipe was not submitted):

Quote:
Item number: xxxx
Winning bid: US $13.49
Bidders: 6 Bids: 8 Time Ended: Mar-19-17 21:11:49 PDT
Bidder: i***s Amount: US $13.49 Bid Time: Mar-19-17 19:01:26 PDT

ENDED US $13.49 (my snipe was US $13.89)
BID UNDER ASKING PRICE: EBAY BID INCREMENT RULE NOT MET
Why did I lose this auction?


Now maybe the winner had a higher proxy, but I'd prefer to at least have Gixen bump my bid by enough of the increment (10c) so that it submits the bid and I either win or can see that I lost by something greater than the increment (50c). Does this make sense? Rolling Eyes
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aasophiashelby
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUMP

Very interesting discussion. Was there any reply to the last post or did this thread drop out of sight?
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 5481
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I left this one as in my opinion the discussion was starting to become repetitive and replicate other threads on similar topics.

As I've stated on many occasions, here and on other threads, in my opinion if you are prepared to pay more you should set your snipe to be a higher amount... if you are not then you should be happy that another buyer was prepared to pay more than you were and they bid accordingly.

The bid increment rule means occasionally another bidder can win for an amount less than your maximum bid, when the auction price gets within one bid increment of the maximum you are willing to pay... that applies no matter how much your snipe is set to be.. So, where do you end with Gixen increasing it 'just a little bit more'... it's a mindset thing really and been discussed many times on here.. I'm happy to agree to disagree with those that continue to hold a slightly different view from my own.
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