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Flaws in Gixen?

 
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bladebladeyblade
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:19 am    Post subject: Flaws in Gixen? Reply with quote

Just wondered if there were any flaws in Gixen which played into the hands of the shill bidders??

I didn't think there were, but I have now won two items at my maximum Gixen bid? Shill (or something similar) or did I just get very lucky. One of the items was a car which I win for GBP 16,005 - My max Gixen price! Super lucky or super stupid????
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 5689
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no way that anyone can know the amount of the bid that you have scheduled to be placed, the Gixen servers are secure and can not been accessed by anyone other than Mario.

It isn't really unusual to win at your maximum if the value of the item is generally agreed... cars, in particular, have price guides that often establish the going rate.

Also ebay always rounds up to your maximum bid when you are within 1 bid increment of the next highest bidder... that feature of ebay, alone, means that the most likely price that you are ever going to pay is your maximum bid.

There are no flaws, that I am aware of, that would encourage shill bidding... but that doesn't mean it never happens on auctions where there are snipers... but sellers take a big risk if they bid high on their own items... detection is more likely if they happen to win the auction... and avoiding detection usually involves paying the selling fees, which can be quite high on things like cars.

In summary, I don't think there is any reason for concern... but I never accept second chance offers due to the possibility.
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Last edited by Cupid on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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bladebladeyblade
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Flaws in Gixen? Reply with quote

OK. I thought that would be the case. I must have got lucky with my max bid... Very Happy

I have used Gixen for 7+ years on ALL transactions.

Rarely get outbid out on an item and never over pay.

Great service. Not subscribed to mirror. THe free service havs never let me down.

Thank you Gixen!!
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mario
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Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 6288

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bladebladeyblade, can you let me know what the item id is? I would like to take a look at this listing. Email me if you don't want it posted in the forum.
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bladebladeyblade
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: flaws in Gixen Reply with quote

This is the item:

310596631530

I didn't se anything unusual in the bidding pattern. But you cannot see retracted bids can you?

In any case, nobody knows i am in the game until the last few seconds?

Thanks Mario...
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mario
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Posts: 6288

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bladebladeyblade, I saw that one in your history, but what is the item id of the car listing you mentioned?

As for 310596631530, I can see one bid that came two seconds after Gixen snipe, but there is no way this was a reaction to it - it was most likely another pre-scheduled snipe.
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 5689
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: flaws in Gixen Reply with quote

bladebladeyblade wrote:
nobody knows i am in the game until the last few seconds?


That is true, provided that you do not divulge your ebay/Gixen credentials to anyone that you do not trust entirely with them.

What I am saying is that you can trust that your interaction with Gixen is secure, however it is possible for your credentials to be compromised by other means, that do not involve Gixen at all.
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bladebladeyblade
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Flaws in Gixen? Reply with quote

...the car purchase was >3 yrs ago so no record within Ebay. Was from a private seller. I just thought I got really lucky last time - Maybe I did? I cannot see that there would be enough time to Schill bid against a Sniper??
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 5689
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, you are right, I've never seen any evidence of a shill bidder as a reaction to a sniper.

What does occasionally occur is a seller placing a speculative high bid on their item to make sure they get others competing against them and they obtain the highest possible bid, to avoid immediate detection some may even use sniping tools to do it... if they happen to win they then claim that the buyer pulled out and offer the real high bidder a second chance offer at their absolute maximum bid, hoping that they will take it... which I never do.

The possibility of detection, by ebay, of doing that is high, especially if done on a regular basis... and I believe, once banned, from selling on ebay it is quite difficult ever to obtain selling privileges again.

BTW, you CAN see retracted bids when they occur, on the bids page, under all the accepted bids, there were none on the auction you quoted above.

From looking at it, I think it is extremely unlikely that the seller of your item is involved in any shady dealing... but I must admit I don't like 'Private' auctions in general, I can't see the advantage to anyone, the seller included.
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ALWAYSSNIPING
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Flaws in Gixen? Reply with quote

bladebladeyblade wrote:
OK. I thought that would be the case. I must have got lucky with my max bid... Very Happy

I have used Gixen for 7+ years on ALL transactions.

Rarely get outbid out on an item and never over pay.

Great service. Not subscribed to mirror. THe free service havs never let me down.

Thank you Gixen!!


Just a thought.......
Maybe after using the free service for 7 years with 100% success you might want to think about subscribing to mirror.
It's great to get everything for free in this life but sometimes paying JUST a little shows appreciation for Mario's hard work in providing a free service and also enables the free and paid service to continue.
It's such a small amount and as you are a 7 year user of this great, amazing Gixen service maybe it's about time you supported it no matter what.
Go on subscribe - I dare you Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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ALWAYSSNIPING
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 6:39 am    Post subject: PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE AND SOMETHING YOU HAVE IN SPADES Reply with quote

mario wrote:
bladebladeyblade, can you let me know what the item id is? I would like to take a look at this listing. Email me if you don't want it posted in the forum.


Dear Mario.
I commend you for your astounding patience and thank you so much for your amazing everything.
You rule.
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mademesnot
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: shill bids? I dunno... Reply with quote

I am curious about this topic. I think there is something wrong. I just won 2 items within the last hour that both went for my exact max bid through gixen. I use weird prices also, one ended in .05, and that is the price I won the item. The ebay item numbers are:

281131062080
321156190005

Just very strange....
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mademesnot
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: shill bids? I dunno... Reply with quote

mademesnot wrote:
I am curious about this topic. I think there is something wrong. I just won 2 items within the last hour that both went for my exact max bid through gixen. I use weird prices also, one ended in .05, and that is the price I won the item. The ebay item numbers are:

281131062080
321156190005

Just very strange....


Also wanted to mention the 2nd best bidders look like your typical shill accounts. I think one showed bids on another item from the same seller. I am going to contact ebay regardless.
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 5689
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not unusual to win at your maximum, because ebay always charges you up to one bid increment more than the next highest bidder, so the likelihood that your bid lies in that range is reasonably high, especially when you consider that is what you valued the item at, it isn't unusual for the second highest bidder to come to a very similar conclusion on value.

It is also not unusual for bidders to have favourite sellers,or to have been looking through the sellers items in order to decide whether shipping discounts might be available on things that might pick up at a good price.

If you suspect shill bidding, the best thing to do is to report it to ebay, as you suggest... they have more information about the bids than we can see and are thus in a better position to make a judgement than we can ever be.
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mademesnot
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cupid wrote:
It is not unusual to win at your maximum, because ebay always charges you up to one bid increment more than the next highest bidder, so the likelihood that your bid lies in that range is reasonably high, especially when you consider that is what you valued the item at, it isn't unusual for the second highest bidder to come to a very similar conclusion on value.


I could understand one but not two back to back. The bids dont even make sense. One 2nd highest bid was 109 and I won the item for 111. The other the 2nd highest bid was 156.51, and I won the item for 157.05. Both were my max bid exactly. Why the difference? I didnt even think $0.54 higher bid was allowed at that high of a value. Not sure if times match up but both show seconds after my bid also.
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mario
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all makes sense. In the first case, the bid came after yours, and you won by one increment. In the second case, the second highest bid came before yours, and the current high price + increment was less than your highest bid, so you won at your maximum bid.

See http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html and you will understand.
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dreamaholic
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one way in which Gixen can play into the hands of shill bidders...if shill bidders themselves are using Gixen.

I once turned in a seller for shill bidding - I bid on the same item 3 times and each time lost out to a snipe with 5 seconds left - from the same buyer. So the same buyer outsniped me 3 times for the exact same item? A closer look revealed that 60% of the items the buyer won were from the same seller. Digging further, the same item was being continually relisted, and the buyer never left the seller any feedback, despite winning hundreds of items from them. Because the clincher was that this was happening for ALL of that seller's auctions, and the buyer's feedback was hidden because it was "private".

I reported it all to eBay. The seller disappeared for a month, then returned to their same old tricks. I reported them again to eBay, but this time there was no response and no action taken.

I actually wondered if a class-action lawsuit was possible. Throwing ethics out the window, eBay would benefit from shill bidding, since it raises the sale price and eBay collects their fees based on end price. Since their investigations and actions taken from a shill bidder report are confidential, they can allow it to continue with impunity. To avoid fees, the seller and buyer can agree to "cancel" the auction and do it all over again.

So are there shill bidders on Gixen? I imagine they do exist...
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure there are many that have considered using sniping services to shill auctions, it isn't rocket science after all.

They can't use such services to agree to cancel transactions though, and that is where shill bidders are more likely to get caught by Ebay if they make a habit of it... otherwise they end up paying Final Value Fees on phantom sales, which would not appear to be a productive way to run a selling operation.

I can't see that there is very much that Gixen could do to detect such activity if sellers were still silly enough to choose to do it, unless you have any suggestions?

Your implication that ebay may be deliberately turning a blind eye to shilling activity might be considered libellous, and I think you should take care with that. That is probably a matter best taken up with Ebay themselves, unless, unlike me, you also think that Gixen can be altered to enable better detection of such activities?
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newbie123
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt dreamaholic will read this, but I am pretty sure ebay won't allow you to cancel so many auctions after they are sold without shutting you down.
I also have my feedback private because I buy alot on ebay for my store. I also buy alot from just a couple of sellers and I almost never leave any return feedback (they have a high enough score already and takes too much of my time).
The items that I win are not exactly the same, but they are all collectibles that can look alike.

So it might just be legit.
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Forrest
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: Flaws in Gixen? Reply with quote

bladebladeyblade wrote:
OK. I thought that would be the case. I must have got lucky with my max bid... Very Happy

I have used Gixen for 7+ years on ALL transactions.

Rarely get outbid out on an item and never over pay.

Great service. Not subscribed to mirror. THe free service havs never let me down.

Thank you Gixen!!


You know, just as a "Thank You" to Mario, why don't you subscribe to the Mirror service for a measly $6. You've used it free for 7-years already, so you'd only be paying less than $1 per year. I know, you many not need mirror service, but as a courtesy to Mario, just chip in some money.

That's what I did and many others who use Gixen. Give it some thought.
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one-way
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forrest wrote:
bladebladeyblade wrote:
OK. I thought that would be the case. I must have got lucky with my max bid... Very Happy

I have used Gixen for 7+ years on ALL transactions.

Rarely get outbid out on an item and never over pay.

Great service. Not subscribed to mirror. THe free service havs never let me down.

Thank you Gixen!!


You know, just as a "Thank You" to Mario, why don't you subscribe to the Mirror service for a measly $6. You've used it free for 7-years already, so you'd only be paying less than $1 per year. I know, you many not need mirror service, but as a courtesy to Mario, just chip in some money.

That's what I did and many others who use Gixen. Give it some thought.

That's a good point. I just spent my money on the auctions but next payday I might just do that.
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