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Multi-win groups coming soon

 
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mario
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Multi-win groups coming soon Reply with quote

Multi-win groups are almost ready to be released. The feature has been tested and it looks good, but since Gixen's QA department is quite limited (=just me), and is also quite involved in software development and administration, I am looking for volunteers to further test the feature. The risk is small, but it exists, so it's best tested with "dollar" items.

If you are willing to assist, please email me with your username, and I will enable the feature for your account.

What are multi-win groups? It's a new type of snipe group that allow you specify more than one item in a group to be won. E.g. you can have 5 items in a group, but you wish to win 2.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Multi-win groups coming soon

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I first set a group to win 2 items, then add three items to that group all is fine.

Then I modify that group to have 3 items and add a few more.

The result is I have a group with a mixture of 2 and 3 items to win.

I'm not sure what is going to happen as the auctions finish.

Maybe this is what we want?... It probably gives more functionality than modifying the number to win on the existing snipes when it is changed.

However it could also be regarded as somewhat confusing.
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mario
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think so, I will disable modifications on number of items per group if there are any existing bids under that group scheduled. I intend to do it, but didn't do this just yet.

But as it is now, what will happen is that the first item that is won will determine how many items are won (e.g. if the setting was 2 items at the time that item was scheduled, it will be two).
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, OK I thought it might give flexibility to increase the number of auctions won 'if you are on a roll'... or reduce the number won if you were winning too many (and hence probably bidding too much)... But your solution sounds like a good one if it is only ever going to be the first snipe that wins that dictates the number to be won because that could lead to unpredicatable results.

No real issues so far, I've got more testing to do yet though.
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mario
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a warning against changing these values while existing group snipes are scheduled. I might consider preventing this in the code nevetheless.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mario wrote:
There is a warning against changing these values while existing group snipes are scheduled. I might consider preventing this in the code nevetheless.


Oh, so there is... was that always there or just since I started trying to break it? Laughing

I don't tend to read the warnings/instructions on software until it bites me Sad ... and then when it does I find I can't complain because there was a statement telling me not to do what I just did... I think it is a 'man thing' Embarassed Razz Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was always there Smile. That means I should probably prevent changes in the code.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I read it subliminally and that's why I tried doing it Shocked

I wouldn't worry about preventing it in software just yet... I don't imagine those that use it are as stupid (or hell bent on breaking it Twisted Evil ) as I am Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I have a new question relating to how the Group gets reset to having won no items.

I have a Group configured to win two items.

First question: Presumably I can keep adding to that Group even after I win the first item?... Or does that reset it to win another two?

I assume that after I win two on that Group it is reset to a Group ready to win another two? ... No problem with that.

Second question: However, suppose I give up trying to win two 'Gadgets' after winning only one and want to use that Group to win two 'Widgets' instead... if I change the Group members to have 'Widgets' in instead of 'Gadgets' after I've won a single 'Gadget' should I be expecting to win one or two of them?

Does that make sense?... I'm sure I could be a bit more precise if I thought about my wording more carefully.
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fonaticalbuyer
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear All,

Is this a Mirror-only feature at the moment?

I just tried setting up half a dozen small-value tests [specifying a quantity] wih my non-mirror-subscribing account and can't see any mention of quantity on the 'Schedule Bids' screen.

The bids have been entered & grouped fine.

Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it will be for Mirror subscribers only.

At the moment, while it is being tested, you will also need to ask Mario to enable it on your account.

It will be enabled and configured from the Settings page.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cupid wrote:
First question: Presumably I can keep adding to that Group even after I win the first item?... Or does that reset it to win another two?



OK, I have a partial answer to this, when you win an auction in a multi win Group the number to win is reduced by 1 on all the other snipes in that Group. Fair enough we do need some indication on the snipes page of the current state of the Group and this provides that.

If I add more snipes to the Group at this stage (after I have won the first) the new snipes have the original Group value (2 in this case) as the number to be Won... however presumably this is incorrect and I should only expect to win one more auction since (based on your reply to my first enquiry) the first snipe that won sets the number to be won for the rest of the Group? .. Or is it that you have to add all the snipes to the Group before winning the first otherwise unpredictable results will occur?... If so, I think that is counter intuitive and will cause confusion.

I think we are going to need a method of resetting a Group so that it is back to the initial state (as if none had been won yet). I have so far thought of a couple of ways this might be done, (i) a Reset button on the Settings page for each Group or (ii) perhaps we could combine this with the other suggestion of being able to set Group names, and when a Group name was changed it would reset the Group since that would be an indication that the user was now looking for something different than when they won the first item(s).
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having thought about it some more... I think that adding a new snipe to a Multi Win Group should set either the set number of items to win for that Multi Win Group, as it does now, if there are no other active snipes scheduled for that Multi Win Group, otherwise it should set the number of items to win for the new snipe to the minimum number of items to win for the other snipes already scheduled for that Multi Win Group.

I think this could address all the issues I currently have, negating the need for a reset button/mechanism because the way you do that is to delete all the items in the Multi Win Group and start again and it should allow the snipes page to continue to reflect the true state of the Multi Win Group at any particular time.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cupid wrote:
is it that you have to add all the snipes to the Group before winning the first otherwise unpredictable results will occur?... If so, I think that is counter intuitive and will cause confusion.


OK, I have now answered this question... yes, the results are currently unpredictable... so I think it is essential for the suggestion I made in my last post to be implemented before this feature is provided to all Mirror subscribers.

I think I am getting the hang of how this is implemented, there is no instance of an active Multi Win Group... it operates from the Number of Items To Win stored on a specific snipe when that item is won... doesn't it?.. and that value is decremented by all earlier wins until it is 1 and then when there is another win all the later snipes in that group are cancelled.
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mario
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, you got it all right.
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fonaticalbuyer
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mario,

Would you be able to enable Multi Win on my Mirror account please (fonaticalbuyer)?

Also the 'Quantity' option relating to Multi-Win seems to be available in Autosnipe [FireFox] regardless of which level of account (Mirror / Standard) is in use. Might be confusing for non-Mirror users to see a feature which isn't applicable to their accoutn level.

Looking forward to giving this some serious testing.

Regards,

Steve
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...Oh and while I think of AutoSnipe in conjunction with Multi Win Groups; I appreciate this is far too early in its evolution for me to comment but evidently it's not about to stop me. Wink

The AutoSnipe screen allows me to specify a Quantity and my Bid Group. So I can add an item with quantity '10' and place it into Group 1. Can I then add another item into Group 1 with a different 'Quantity' (it appears so), in which case which Quantity value is respected by Gixen?

Regards,

Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fonaticalbuyer wrote:
Also the 'Quantity' option relating to Multi-Win seems to be available in Autosnipe [FireFox] regardless of which level of account (Mirror / Standard) is in use. Might be confusing for non-Mirror users to see a feature which isn't applicable to their accout level.


I think that is a hang over from when eBay allowed multiple items to be listed by sellers on auctions, and is not related to this feature at all. eBay do not have that feature any more and it really should be removed from Autosnipe entirely, as it has been from the web interface.

It is going to be a while before Autosnipe (especially since Kieth maintains it, not Mario) is updated to include this new feature, at the moment it is on the web interface only, not even in the API or the Gixen Desktop Manager.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fonaticalbuyer wrote:
...Oh and while I think of AutoSnipe in conjunction with Multi Win Groups; I appreciate this is far too early in its evolution for me to comment but evidently it's not about to stop me. Wink

The AutoSnipe screen allows me to specify a Quantity and my Bid Group. So I can add an item with quantity '10' and place it into Group 1. Can I then add another item into Group 1 with a different 'Quantity' (it appears so), in which case which Quantity value is respected by Gixen?


As per my previous post, this is related to a moribund feature on eBay and not to Multi Win Groups... it will have no effect whatsoever on Multi Win Groups... the feature will have to be implemented from scratch in Autosnipe ... this may never happen since the feature is controlled primarily from the Gixen Settings page... and not when entering a specific snipe which is what Aurosnipe is designed to handle.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark, just something I'd never spotted before - sorry for the confusion! Wink

Steve
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not at all, thanks for raising it Steve... I think others might well get confused by that too now that Multi Win Groups are coming in... so we should probably ask Keith to remove it from Autosnipe ASAP.

It was removed as a feature from eBay (they were known as Dutch Auctions) well over a year ago, and from the Gixen web pages soon after that.

Hopefully Mario will enable Multi Win Groups on your account soon and then you can join in the fun Smile Shocked
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cupid wrote:
adding a new snipe to a Multi Win Group should set either the set number of items to win for that Multi Win Group, as it does now, if there are no other active snipes scheduled for that Multi Win Group, otherwise it should set the number of items to win for the new snipe to the minimum number of items to win for the other snipes already scheduled for that Multi Win Group.


With this enhancement you would also be able to change your warning on the Settings page from

Mario wrote:
Do not change group settings if you have active group snipes, as this may result in an unexpected behaviour.


to the less alarmist:

Note: This setting will only take effect when you set up a new Group.
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mario
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fonaticalbuyer, I enabled multi-win groups for your account.

Quantity in autosnipe (and elsewhere) is no longer used, ebay does not support dutch auctions any longer. Thank you for letting me know, I'll remove it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mario, I'm due to do a round of buying soon so will feedback anything I come across.

Initial thoughts are that a maximum quantity of 5 items is a little low for my personal needs, albeit I appreciate it's quite reasonable for most people and yes I could always use multiple groups each with five entries!

Regards,

Steve
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, that can be increased if needed, not an issue.
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toothbrushheaven
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:38 am    Post subject: bid change on multi-win groups Reply with quote

Its nice to see multi-win groups implemented.

I'd like to see an option to change the bid based on number of items won. I.E. I really need one item, and would like a second but only for a good price (not a I'm desperate price).
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can probably achieve that by combining one standalone item and one (regular) group.
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toothbrushheaven
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:26 am    Post subject: bid change on multi-win groups Reply with quote

Nice idea, to put an item in different groups. Unfortunately I get the error "Sorry, this item is already present."

If it only checked for duplicates in the same group...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you can only have an item listed to snipe once.

I think Mario meant that you would need to update the snipes as you went along... always having the first outside the Group at a higher amount until you won one and the rest within the Group.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: bid change on multi-win groups Reply with quote

Unfortunately, manually to update snipe lists kinda misses half the point of sniping - I don't need to be tied to the web. Sometimes items are closely timed.

I think checking that items aren't duplicated only within a group is the best option. Or, give a warning, not an error, if they are.

Sounds like the only work around to getting additional items in a group, at a lower bid, is to get multiple gixen accounts. Do you know if there is a way to do this without having multiple ebay accounts also?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, there is a 1:1 relationship between gixen and ebay accounts.

I am reluctant to implement something like "drop the bidding price when one item won", I sense many complications with that. Even as it is, I am having hard time explaining present options to users.

I were in a situation like that (need one item, not desperate for the second), and if enough items available, I would probably create two groups - one with higher, the other one with lower price. How I would classify them would depend on timing of the auctions, and my availability to make modifications. And I would certainly turn on email notifications. It's not as useful as what you propose, but it will probably work most of the time.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:25 am    Post subject: bid change on multi-win groups Reply with quote

I think your site is pretty self-explanatory. I've found some end users need screen-shot examples...

I'm dealing with an item with relatively little availability, just two happen to have ended up closing within an hour when I'm not available.

I think the two gixen accounts is the only real option, one with a I'm desperate group, the other account with I'd hate to miss a good deal on a spare.

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a good idea at all to use two ebay accounts, as you would end up bidding against yourself.
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