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Fell at 'Bid Increment' rule, but so did previous Bidder?

 
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speedtrip
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:19 am    Post subject: Fell at 'Bid Increment' rule, but so did previous Bidder? Reply with quote

Item ~ 124204732454

as you can see from the Bidding history page, the Winning Bid wasnt a GBP 10 increment either !

Pasted that info:-

7***0 GBP 327.73 1 Jun 2020 at 6:24:35PM BST
e***e GBP 325.00 1 Jun 2020 at 4:19:13PM BST
This is an automatic (proxy) bid placed by eBay on behalf of the bidder .e***e GBP 310.00 1 Jun 2020 at 4:19:13PM BST

The error msg I got on your follow-up email isnt the same as the one I saw online on GIXEN site (which quoted the 'EBaY Increment violation' rejection !)

In fact, the Email error msg is even more confusing, as it clearly shows my bid being more than the 'Current Price' of GBP 327.73:-

Item: 124204732454
Title: christopher ward watch C5 -swt Made 2005 Unworn Immaculate . Uk Only.
Status (main): BID UNDER ASKING PRICE
Status (mirror): BID UNDER ASKING PRICE
Your maximum bid: 333.13
Current price: 327.73

Feeling somewhat disappointed - never, ever previously had a problem like this !

Probably this is just an FYI, but do wonder why the winning Bid got away with less than the relevant GBP 10 increment !

Cheers - keep up the good work in these troubled times !
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6325
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of this is perfectly correct and normal operation.

The bid increment rule is based on the auction price displayed on the site, not on the highest proxy bid which remains hidden until it is outbid.

At the time that the winning bid was placed (5 seconds before the auction finished) the auction price was GBP 310.00 (the next lowest bid of GBP 300 + 1 bid increment of GBP 10), therefore Ebay was accepting any bid of GBP 320 or more (current auction price of GBP 310.00 + 1 bid increment of GBP 10) which the winning bid of GBP 327.73 certainly was, and since it is also higher than the previously placed bid of GBP 325.00 it wins the auction.

The messaging might appear to you to be inconsistent but is also correct, at the time Gixen came to place your bid of GBP 333.13 Ebay had an asking price of GBP 337.73 (the current auction price of GBP 327.73 + 1 bid increment of GBP 10), since your bid was higher than the auction price at that time it was indeed rejected because of the bid increment rule. The web interface is just being more explicit about why the bid was not a winner.

In order for a bid of that amount to be accepted you needed an offset of more than 5 seconds. This is a great example of why the bid scheduled to be the latest is not always the one that wins; As I always say it is the 'highest accepted bid' that always wins on Ebay, unfortunately if it's not accepted it can't win.

Thank you for raising this because it illustrates very well why I prefer (and recommend) offsets of 8 and above, in order to gain the advantage of the bid increment rule and have other snipers bids blocked, as yours was, more often than my own.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appreciate your help - my reaction was surprise as its the first time in some 5 years I've encountered this ...

i will increase my Offset from 3 to at least 5 based on this !

Thanks again !
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 6325
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't happen often, but when it does, I do understand that, it's annoying.

Successful sniping turns out not to always be about being the last to attempt to place a bid. The amount is always the most significant factor though, the timing just needs to be late enough to avoid others reconsidering what they are willing to bid and entering a higher bid as a result, in most cases under 10 seconds before the end of the auction is sufficient for that.

Thank you for appreciating the explanation and for accepting it graciously in the manner it was intended.
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scenicsRme
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:02 pm    Post subject: constantly being outsniped Reply with quote

When I started using a paid sniping service (Gixen actually) a couple decades ago, the motivation was to purchase the item at a lower price by shutting out other bidders by the service placing the next higher increment so close to the auction end that another bidder could not get in another higher bid. The paid service was different than the free version of the service in that you could specify a shorter offset time than the default time.
I left buying on ebay for a while and just recently returned, but something has changed with either bid sniping in general or Gixen in particular. I am consistently being outsniped! I subscribe to Gixen's mirror service, and set my offsets to 3 seconds based on Gixen's admonishment that if I chose a lower offset my bid is more likely to not be placed, but I am consistently ending up being the second highest bidder with me placing two bids, first the next increment at 3 sec that should have won if it closed out other bidders, then another, being my maximum, and then being overbid and the winning bid being one increment higher. This says to me that there is another or more than one additional service that is successfully placing their snipe bids less than 3 seconds before the end of the auction after mine.
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is always the highest accepted bid that wins on Ebay.

Gixen has always placed just your maximum bid, and bid only once from each server. If you have the same offset for both that can result in Ebay registering two bids of the same amount since it can't block bids of the same amount coming from different locations at the same time.

It's possible that more Ebay users snipe these days, I haven't seen any figures that indicate this might be the case, but since it's the sensible thing for all bidders to do it would not surprise me.

As demonstrated by the case earlier in this thread, the more snipers there are the more likely that an earlier bid (not a later one) will win the auction, primarily due to the bid increment rule. That might seem counter intuitive but it's the reason why I've always preferred offsets greater than the default of 6 seconds, because I always was interested in the same items as other snipers.

Losing an auction by one bid increment has always been the most likely outcome on Ebay since it is the maximum that Ebay forces a buyer to pay no matter how much more they actually bid. It's certainly not an indication that there is some way of detecting the amount of the next highest bid and just placing one that is exactly one bid increment more than it.

It's also worth noting, and perhaps not often acknowledged, that over time buyers tend to get better at estimating the true value of the items they are interested in, this in turn may well result in less reckless/lower snipe bids being placed on them. The perception might be that, 'I seem to win less these days' when the reality is that in the past you just paid more for the items than others were willing to.
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