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Didn't get bid

 
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Havethisone
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Didn't get bid Reply with quote

I have had two occasions now where I have not won an item, but some one else did bidding the same amount. According to the bid history I bid first. ???
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mario
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post item id here so that we can take a look?
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Havethisone
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Requested reply Reply with quote

280184892376
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juangrande



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 890
Location: San Diego, California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's enough of the bidding history to see what happened. Your $31.00 bid was made at 23:11:54 and kamranr's $31.00 bid was made at 22:01:19, a full 1 hour, 10 minutes and 35 seconds before your bid; thus, kamranr's bid was given precedence. Note also that kamranr made another bid at 22:03:24, so you would still have lost the auction: the only difference had your bid been made earlier would be that the closing price of the auction would have been one increment higher, that is, $32.00.

Code:

Bidders: 5   Total Bids: 15   Time Ended: Dec-23-07 23:11:58 PST

This item has ended.

Bidder       Bid Amount       Bid Time    
kamranr      US $31.00        Dec-23-07 22:03:24 PST    
kamranr      US $31.00        Dec-23-07 22:01:19 PST    
havethisone  US $31.00        Dec-23-07 23:11:54 PST    
kamranr      US $30.00        Dec-23-07 21:59:09 PST    
jsg1965      US $28.32        Dec-23-07 20:41:41 PST    
kamranr      US $27.00        Dec-23-07 21:56:29 PST    

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John

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject:

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nochkin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Havethisone, another suggestion..
If 31.00 is what you really want to pay (not 32.00), then bid few pennies more, like 32.01 or so.
It won't hurt your budget, but will increase your chances to win (especially in this case).
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 7596
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nochkin wrote:
Havethisone, another suggestion..
If 31.00 is what you really want to pay (not 32.00), then bid few pennies more, like 32.01 or so.
It won't hurt your budget, but will increase your chances to win (especially in this case).


Yes I agree that is good advice. However in this case it would have had to have been a bid of more than 31.01 (because kamranr's bid at Dec-23-07 22:03:24 PST must have been at least 31.01 for eBay to have accepted it), perhaps havethisone didn't want to pay much more than 31.00.

BTW a belated Happy New Year to everyone here (I was waiting until I could be at least partialy 'On Topic' Wink )
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juangrande



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cupid wrote:
However in this case it would have had to have been a bid of more than 31.01 (because kamranr's bid at Dec-23-07 22:03:24 PST must have been at least 31.01 for eBay to have accepted it)


Actually, this is not quite correct, Mark. Since we know kamranr's bid at Dec-23-07 22:01:19 PST was exactly $31.00, his bid at Dec-23-07 22:03:24 PST had to be at least one bid increment higher than $31.00 for eBay to have accepted it, namely, $32.00. In other words, in order to bid again, one must bid at least one bid increment more than one's previous bid, even if the current bid is lower than one's previous bid. So, havethisone would have had to bid more than $32.00 to have a chance at winning.

Cupid wrote:
BTW a belated Happy New Year to everyone here (I was waiting until I could be at least partialy 'On Topic' Wink )


Thanks for leaving me an opening to be at least partially 'On Topic' while wishing you a Happy New Year, Mark! Wink
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juangrande wrote:
Actually, this is not quite correct, Mark. Since we know kamranr's bid at Dec-23-07 22:01:19 PST was exactly $31.00, his bid at Dec-23-07 22:03:24 PST had to be at least one bid increment higher than $31.00 for eBay to have accepted it, namely, $32.00. In other words, in order to bid again, one must bid at least one bid increment more than one's previous bid, even if the current bid is lower than one's previous bid. So, havethisone would have had to bid more than $32.00 to have a chance at winning.


Hey John,

Are you absolutely sure?... I'm pretty certain that I've encountered bidding where the high bidder has bid within an increment of themselves when placing a higher bid, indeed I've been caught out by it when I've been nasty enough to think that I don't want an item going for the current bid price, but their actual highest bid is within an incremant above what I would be happy to pay.

When kamranr's bid at Dec-23-07 22:03:24 PST the auction price was $29.32 (or perhaps even $28.82, I'm not certain where the bid incremant goes from $0.50 to $1.00 ?) held by their earlier bid at Dec-23-07 21:59:09 PST and seconded by their bid of $31 at 22:01:19 PST... I think that in this case (where your proxy is not entirely used) eBay will accept any bid that is above your own and also above the current increment, so $31.01 would be acceptable.

I'm very hesitant to contradict you as I do bow to you undoubted greater bidding knowledge... its just, as I say, I'm sure I've encountered the type of bidding that I'm suggesting is possible.
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nochkin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juangrande,
Before havethisone sniped this auction, it was at 29.32 (with hidden bid 31.00 from kamranr) so the next increment is 30.32 to be accepted by eBay and 31.01 to actually win (not 32.01 as I mis-typed before Wink ).

Increment is 1.00 for this price range.
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juangrande



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 890
Location: San Diego, California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nochkin wrote:
Before havethisone sniped this auction, it was at 29.32 (with hidden bid 31.00 from kamranr) so the next increment is 30.32 to be accepted by eBay and 31.01 to actually win


This is not quite correct. Once havethisone bid, it became known that kamranr's next-to-last bid was exactly $31.00 and his last bid had to be more. Thus, havethisone could not have won with a bid of $31.01, as Mark has already pointed out.

By the way, Mark, you are absolutely correct! Our discussion convinced me to do the experiment: see the bid history for item 220187723871. Since eggersjd is my alter ego, I happen to know that his 2nd and 3rd bids are $10.45 and $10.50, respectively. When I made the last bid, eBay's only requirement was that I bid more than $10.45, which is exactly what you claimed. All I can say is: whoops! Rolling Eyes

BTW, if anyone is interested in a book entitled Contributions To The Theory Of Riemann Surfaces, they'll know exactly how much they'll have to bid to outbid me. Very Happy
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Cupid



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John,

I hope you did not think me rude for not replying to your last post here... I must admit that I missed it entirely... I think that is because it was an edited post rather than a completely new one.

Anyway I came back (eventually) to provide another example for our readers, if you view the bidding of miss_me_when_im_gone on auction 350012049642 it demonstrates what is possible in this respect.

I'm certainly not recommending that type of bidding, however thinking about it further:

1> I can see if you bid every penny between one increment above the current bid and what you are prepared to pay then you could perhaps save almost an increment in your costs if you won the auction. eBay would only take the bid at the next highest bidders price (the same as one of your own bids) as the winning bid, i.e. not add an extra increment from your proxy bid... Of course it doesn't work because it just attracts more bids from others. The time and effort involved in setting it up would be a waste of time, in my view.

2> It could also intimidate other bidders into thinking that you have bid higher than you actually have (if they looked at the bid history) and perhaps refrain from actually bidding against you even if they were prepared to pay more. This doesn't work because bidders rarely look at the bid history, and even if they do they are unlikely to be intimidated by it particularly if they really want the item, and are prepared to pay more than the current price plus one increment.

Perhaps there are other reasons that people might bid this way?... Anyway its cetainly been an interesting discussion, hasn't it?
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juangrande



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cupid wrote:
I hope you did not think me rude for not replying to your last post here... I must admit that I missed it entirely... I think that is because it was an edited post rather than a completely new one.


It never even occurred to me, Mark! I thought the discussion was interesting, as well! I had simply been working under a misconception. Thanks for pointing it out!

John
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