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How did i loose this one?

 
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bo545
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: How did i loose this one? Reply with quote

Item was at 6.99 when i bidded.
I bid 8.00 using Gixen
I still lost.
Item 200146254622
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:35 pm    Post subject: How did i loose this one?

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juangrande



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 848
Location: San Diego, California, USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In short, you were outbid by noured1987. Here is the bidding history:

Code:
Bidder          Amount      Time
------          ------      ----
noured1987      US $8.50    Sep-02-07 13:45:34 PDT    
noured1987      US $8.50    Aug-29-07 17:11:50 PDT    
rayzor913       US $8.00    Sep-02-07 19:29:55 PDT    
xraykid40214    US $6.99    Sep-01-07 06:12:29 PDT    
firewaterwind   US $5.99    Aug-28-07 07:13:35 PDT    
renev4477       US $4.00    Aug-27-07 18:15:37 PDT    
firewaterwind   US $2.99    Aug-28-07 07:13:25 PDT    
Starting Price  US $0.99    Aug-26-07 19:30:00 PDT


When noured1987 bid at least $8.50 on Aug 29, he became the high bidder at $6.49 (the next highest bid was $5.99 and the bid increment was $0.50). Then xraykid40214 bid $6.99 on Sep 01 and was immediately outbid by noured1987, and the current bid became $7.49 ($6.99 + $0.50). Thus, the current bid was $7.49 when Gixen bid $8.00 for you 5 seconds before the end of the auction; however, you were immediately outbid by noured1987, with the winning bid becoming $8.50 (your $8.00 + $0.50). We can't tell how much noured1987 actually bid; in fact, it looks like he bid considerably more than $8.50, since he entered a yet higher bid on Sep 02 after bidding at least $8.50 on Aug 29. Note that the current bid was never actually $6.99.

I hope this helps: remember, it is not the last bid that wins, it is the HIGHEST bid that wins.
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Last edited by juangrande on Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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bo454
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if the bid wasnt 6.99, why did e-bay say it was?
How does this at least bidding work?
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bo454
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh.... no edit button.

So he noured bid 8.50 on aug 29, how come xraykid was able to bid?
E-bay displayed xraykid's bid of 6.99 to be the highest bid.
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juangrande



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 848
Location: San Diego, California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bid history shows only the current bid (or winning bid) of the auction and the actual bids of lower bidders: it does not show what the current bid was at an earlier time in the auction. Note that the current bid is the second-highest bid plus a bid increment (unless the highest bid is less than one increment above the second-highest bid, in which case the current bid coincides with the highest bid).

At the time xraykid40214 bid, noured1987 was the high bidder and the current bid was 6.49 (firewaterwind's bid of 5.99 + 0.50 bid increment). So the minimum bid available to xraykid40214 was 6.49 + 0.50 = 6.99, and he bid that.

Perhaps it's worth emphasizing that the "current bid" displayed on an auction page at any given time is not an actual bid: it is the second-highest bid plus a bid increment. (OK, the current bid sometimes corresponds to the highest bid, but only if the second-highest bid is less than a bid increment lower than the highest bid, as mentioned above.)

See eBay's bid increment page http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html for an explanation of bid increments.

See tiptie's "How to Read Bid Histories" at http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/sniperbill/ for an excellent explanation of how to read bid histories. This is really worth reading if you want to know how eBay's bidding system works.
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If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
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bo454
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So why doesn't ebay just show the highest bidder?
isn't that how auctions are suppose to work?

Whats a proxy bid?
How do you place maximum bids or w.e its called, like how JACKIE did in hxxp://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=sniperbill?
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juangrande



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 848
Location: San Diego, California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auction for more on auctions.

See eBay's help page at http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/proxy-bidding.html for an explanation of proxy bidding.
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If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
--- Yogi Berra
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bo545
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So lets say the item is at $9.00
The bid i need to win (which i dont know yet) is $9.50.
I go on gixen and set it to my maximum bid to $100.
So when i win the bid, will i pay $9.50 or $100?
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juangrande



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 848
Location: San Diego, California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The amount of the win is determined by the amount of the second-highest bid: the winning bid is the second-highest bid plus up to one increment (the winning bid is the highest bid if the highest bid is less than an increment higher than the second-highest bid.

Using your example of an item with a starting bid of $9.00, let's say I bid $9.00. The showing bid would be $9.00. If you bid $100.00, then the winning bid would be $9.50, which is all you would have to pay.

As a second example, suppose I bid $99.75 on the same item. The showing bid would again be $9.00. If you bid $100.00, the winning bid would be $100.00. In this case, your bid would be less than an increment ($1.00) more than my bid, and so the winning bid amount would be just the amount of your bid.
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 5481
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juangrande wrote:
the winning bid is the second-highest bid plus up to one increment


I agree with all of the above, though it may take a little dedication and re-reading to understand all the consequences.

I'd just like to further expand on the quote I have taken, I would expand this to:

juangrande wrote:
the winning bid is the second-highest bid from a unique bidder plus up to one increment


... the point being that it is not possible to outbid yourself, if you are already the high bidder and you bid even higher the bid amount will not increase (unless your original high bid is less than one increment above the next highest bid, in that case the amount will increase to up to one bid increment above the other bidder).

However, I would hardly ever actually recommend outbidding yourself because on eBay the fact that you have outbid yourself is visible to others, in the bid history (though not necessarily the amounts if the whole of your proxy is not used), and that is an indication to others that you are prepared to pay more than the current highest bid, thus attracting even more bids and further inflating the price. Perhaps even from the seller (using a different account) this is what is known as shill bidding, generally sniping protects you from this (illegal) activity.

The only time I would recommend outbidding yourself is when you use a low starting bid to remove a high 'Buy it Now' option, and back it up with a realistic snipe, using gixen, at the maximum you are prepared to pay. This avoids losing the auction to another sniper, but gets it at the cheapest price if there is no other interest/bids.

It really isn't that complicated... I do wonder if perhaps we are making it appear so?
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Cupid



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 5481
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another consequence of the system as explained by juangrande that is perhaps worth highlighting here is that whenever you bid (ie whether via sniping at the last minute or manually well before the auction end) you must always be prepared to pay the amount that you bid as it may come to that.

A quote that I read recently with which I agree and appears apt here is:

Quote:
Nibblers (those that bid single increment amounts until they are the high bidder, as the auction progresses) bid for a bargain and hope to win. Snipers bid to win and hope for a bargain.


Snipers win more of the auctions in which they take an interest.
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